To change the water temperature; Check this too: Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. I added an additional remote for a total of 3. First, place a " thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. Continue with Recommended Cookies. I bought the. I recently had a 240A2 installed. 1. Confirm the thermistor and wiring is in good condition. Why Does My Stiebel Eltron Tempra High-limit Switch Keep Tripping. Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. The exhaust is overheating. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? = heat loss from the circulation system [kW] To remedy this issue, turn off the heater for some time and restart it. 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 . Here are some of the leading causes of cold water production; Which means there isnt enough time for the water to heat up. The second method seems to suggest the cold water at sinks will most likely have been run through the hot water tank. You just have to set the timer as you use it. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. Therefore, the only task you can attempt on this list is the gasket replacement for the leaking water connection. Cookie Notice You just have to unplug the pump, and it will be turned off. We always take the pros vs. cons approach because nothing is perfect. Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions For example, you will see Navien error code 003 on the display screen, which means the igniter is malfunctioning. You can return the item for any reason in new and unused condition: no shipping charges ; This number indicates that the water pressure is high. The remote control module sits beside this area (I have it floating but I'll put double stick tape and mount it to the interior soon) and the antenna lead drops through a grommet (conveniently already available at the bottom of the unit near the pcb) to the outside. Here are some simple instructions on how to turn on your Navien tankless water heater. If you look at the instructions, which tech support emailed to me, there is a Signal 1 input for 12 or 5V devices including remote controls or motion sensors BTW the other remote was sold out. Continue reading below Our Video of the Day 1. It depends on how the recirculation pump is installed, and some other factors, plumbers usually know this stuff pretty well. You need a check valve on the cold inlet 3/4 pipe also from the looks of the picture, you do not have a true designated recirculation line from your furnace fixture. Hi Patrick, thats a good insight. Besides, the E782 indicates that there is something wrong with the main panel communication. When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? Also the unit needs to be set to utilize the recirculation feature. The temperature sensor, on the other hand, makes sure you dont needlessly use too much energy to heat the water. Press J to jump to the feed. Now you have your socket, turn it off/on whenever you want! This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. Navien tankless water heater recirculation March 31, 2016 At the push of a button, Navien 's HotButton accessory activates the internal recirculation pump and gas-fired burner to heat up the water in the supply lines. Both of those spots are problematic though. Do the plumbers explanations make any sense at all or does it sound like BS? This may require chasing the supply lines. Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. Place the filter assembly back into the water heater and secure it with the screw. If enabled you would find that your hot water is ready to go almost anytime you need it, without a long wait. We do all the time-consuming research and testing for you. Most of information is available in the install manual but some of it requires a phone call to Navien support. I think it's 100F. Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Our articles, products and services are for informational purposes. That means that the cold water is not actually cold; it will usually be slightly warm (at room temperature). This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? where does the recirc line tie come off the hot lines? In fact, however, the whole machinery of the hot water recirculating pump has to be activated for this to happen. If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. Air in the line: If there has been a power outage or air has gotten into the line for another reason, the pump can make a lot of noise. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The pump will cost you $200 to install, $5.50-$32 to operate, will waste $160-$400 per year and will save you $4-$50 on your water bill. You can turn off the recirculating pump in various ways. Like with most things, a lot of noise coming from your hot water recirculation pump isn't a good sign. Get in touch with Navien technical support at 800-519-8794. When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. Also, make sure you get the 1- pipe for the horizontal manifold, which will help even out the flow of the recirculators. Lets look at the individual parts that make up the recirculation pump for hot water: If you want to install a recirculation pump, you start by getting the whole recirculating pump kit. The estimated annual operating cost of the Navien tankless water heater, based on the yearly estimated residential use per US Energy Department test criteria, is $191. Only 13 left in stock - order soon. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. The Navien is smart enough to stop recirculation when it recognises hot water has made the entire loop. Is there a proper earth ground point in this switch box? Turn off the device and examine the APSs condition. Then, tighten up the cap again once you remove all the air from the loop. I have a clog, When the faucet is on the unit is indicating flow rate of 1.4 GPM which seems plenty and the recirculation mode is set to external & always on. Does It Save Money? You also have to flush the heat exchanger. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. Open the service port on the host side and the isolation valve on the cold side, pushing water through the system. It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. To understand this problem what I am talking about, you can watch this video: First off, I recommend you check the primary loop. It means that there is an issue with the air pressure sensor. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. What Parts Are In The Hot Water Circulation Pump Kits? A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 I am guessing that he only returned the HOT line, hence the delayed time in "INSTANT HOT", as the Naviens are sold as well as there 96% efficiency!! Working well so far. Set the pump in the bucket and plug it in. Unscrew the plug cover with a suitable screwdriver to remove it. Examine the wiring and thermistors condition. Turn off the unit and check the valves wiring and condition. Correcting Navien Tankless Hot Water Heater Installation, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Tankless water heater - not consistent hot water output, Plumbing Manifold Use With a Tankless Hot Water Heater, No hot water if hot water recirculator pump is shut off, warm water only when we replaced the hot water heater with a tankless heater. Then turn on the heater and then your pump. Its a piece of cake to bleed the air out of your Navien recirculation pump. (+ Calculator), 5 Best Air Purifiers For Allergies In 2023 (+ H13 Medical-Grade HEPA Filters), Is A Tankless Water Heater Worth It? Recirculation Settings by pressing down the OK button. The main sign of motherboard or control board failure is intermittent switching off and on. You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. I got a Navien NPE 240A2 installed in my home with dedicated recirculating line (hopefully I got the lingo right!) I used a razor and carefully pried each side of the RM11 open to reach the programming switch. Examine and wash the intake air filter underneath running water using a toothbrush. Contents show It worked perfectly. If the problem persists, call a technician to fix the unit. Those are quite significant savings. Ask an Expert Home Improvement Questions HVAC Questions Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. It also increases the gas bill. We recommend to use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. Think hot water loops returning to your boiler to get reheated (to stay hot) Think LOOPS!! Not Mounted The Pump Securely or Isolate It, Navien Tankless Water Cycles On And Off [5 Easy Solutions]. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. Therefore most homeowners try to cut down costs wherever possible, bypassing the recommended installation procedure. There are two options when it comes to tankless heaters and recirculation pumps: If you have difficulty finding out which brand is the best for a tankless water heater with a recirculation pump, you should check the newest Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units. Since pumps cost about $200 each, the recirculating pump will pay for itself in 3-4 years. Follow Up: struct sockaddr storage initialization by network format-string, Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology, Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying. Once the display stops flashing, the temperature setting is stored. The number of bathrooms, tubs, dishwashers, and washers. (1000-3000+ Sq Ft Homes), Thermostat Says Heat On But No Heat? We turn it off because it will waste gas. We want to reduce waste in using water given our well situation. Hello David, well, the additional costs are a con here. Prevention of Modern Slavery Progress Reports. Check if there is any gas leakage before turning it on after a couple of days. You need to run white vinegar through the system, to descale the water heater. It provides information about the problem with the fan motor. Calculator + Chart (Natural Gas), Average Gas Bill For 1-Bedroom Apartment: State-By-State Cost Analysis, Average Electricity Bill For 4 Person Household (Survey Analysis), How Many kWh Per Day Is Normal? This extra pipe is installed parallel to conventional piping. Question: Can a recirculating pump last for 10-15 years?Answer: If you use it properly, it should last at least 10-15 years. One option is to put a relay/contactor between the Navien and the internal pump, so that that pump can only get power when the house is occupied. Without the need for extra piping, this type of hot water circulation pump system also comes at a much lower cost. Turning off the water recirculating pump isnt a big deal. Examine the thermistors condition and pump wiring connectors. A hot water recirculating pump will save you money, especially if you have a larger family. The water heater will not provide hot water instantly. The total amount of water needed is 2 gallons + 1.5 gallons + (3 gallons * length of shower). Should I keep my 5-year-old electric tank heater as a storage unit if I am about to install a new gas tankless heater? However, I have envious of those who have the NPE with the hot button and wifi link. Is this noise normal coming from my Navien tankless heater? As a result, the stuff will rub against the wall of the pump and produce a hum like a refrigerator when you turn the unit on. Note on tankless hot water heater recirculation pumps (double trouble solved). Most importantly, the installer fails to mount the pump on the vibration isolators. That install is exactly as specified in the newer manuals. Once again, there are a few different things it could be. It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. Use your pump when you want to use it. It's unfortunate he's not around to explain all this to you. (State-By-State Chart), How To Convert Therms To kWh? Purchase and install a rocker switch or "doorbell" style buttons to activate the NRCR "on-demand" mode to prime the pump for use only when you want it. My pipes arent big enough 2. Using a corrosion-free flow sensor made of stainless steel is a better option. The pump works on the existing pipes; it basically sends the leftover water back to the boiler or the heater. To create an energy-efficient full recirculation system, your pump has to come with these two efficiency optimizing parts. However, the unit comes equipped with a standard 120V appliance cord and operates between 200 and 300 watts. This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. But it will be best if you contact a certified plumber to fix this issue. Page 12 Turn off and discontinue use of the water heater if any of the vent . I recall it was p23 but it was definitely larger than p20. The user manual for these devices (of which I own two) provides a pretty good plumbing diagram for proper install. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. link to How to Connect a Generator to Your Tiny House Without a Transfer Switch, Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. The cold water inlet one thermistor is defective. How do hot water recirculation pumps work to get hot water fast? = 4.5 x CFM x h (std. This propels the water to your faucet or shower much quicker. Well tackle the installation and running costs of a circulating pump in full near the end. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Return this item for free. Remove the inlet filter and wash it under the running water with the help of a brush. Can a Hot Water Recirculating Pump cause low water pressure? By installing a hot water circulation pump, you will have a hot shower right away. We trusted him and thought everything was just fine as we were getting hot water throughout the house. I don't hear the heater "fire up" right away when the tap is opened and can't tell if the recirculation pump is running. Generally, your Navien recirculation pump will produce a humming noise because of the wrong size primary loop, not purging the recirculation pump, or foreign materials getting into the pump. We hope we were able to help you out with our guide. Is there a check valve? Then replace the heater cover and turn the gas or power back on. Thanks. Categories Home Improvement, Patio, Lawn & Garden, Plumbing, Tools, Water Valve Handle Broke Off? Some brands/models dont include it. If you have a Navien tankless water heater this can be done by simply pressing a . Also, as I'm taking a closer look at it, I'm concerned that some key things may be amiss. The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. Do not advertise or try to compare pricing. Parts that will actually be used depend on what kind of hot water recirculation pump you have. This error informs you there is something wrong while you reset the unit. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. 08. 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 ratings. Brand: Navien. Bosch Tankless Water Heater Troubleshooting [A Complete Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Error Codes [Ultimate Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Wont Ignite [7 Easy Solutions]. Consider yourself lucky if this installation hasn't damaged your circulating pump inside the unit. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Are these pumps just a luxury that enables you to get hot water lightning fast, or do they actually save you money? Then, use the arrows to set the desired temperature. You can change the cold water inlet thermistor if necessary. Full Recirculation Pump System - Going this route adds additional piping to your system, allowing for a "hot water loop" to be created, ensuring the water doesn't end up sitting and going cold in your pipes and instead is recirculated, ready for the next time you turn on the tap. I am wondering if you have a Navilink and if you by any chance went in like I did and clicked the "disable/enable button" and turned off the schedules, I did change that - thinking it was a glitch that on first launch "enable" was showing. . Please see below for important warranty information and a list of models that this part fits. This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. All you have is a crossover valve underneath a sink somewhere also when plumbed correctly, all of that will only function with proper dip switch settings, perimeter settings, which is Pacific per heater model. Neither reason is likely to be correct but we would need a much more in depth knowledge of the hot water distribution system and the circulation line in particular. If a hot water faucet is open, you can adjust the temperature only from 98-110 F (37-43 C). Where is the 2 internal drain valve in Navien 240a tankless water heater (damaged needs replacement), Shower gradually cools, gets hotter when sink is on. I'm fairly handy with DIY plumbing, but not and expert and I know when I am out of my league. I have 5 connections including the recirculation in. It shows that the heating return thermistor is not working correctly. Thats kind of why the water heater still has to do some work (it turns on); its not a lot of heating but some heating is usually required. T = the water cooling, normally 5 C determined at the farthest consumption point [C]. air), Latent Heat (BTU/hr) = 0.69 x CFM x gr. Hope this illustrates well why this might be occurring; its a pretty standard thing. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Shut off the appliance for half an hour and then restart. Average 1-6 Person Home kWh Usage, Gas Vs Electric Water Heater Monthly Cost Comparison (State-By-State), Water Heating Costs For 1,2,3,4,5,6 Family Homes (State-By-State Analysis), Electric Water Heating Cost, kWh Usage Per Month (State-By-State RECS Analysis), What Is W2 Wire On Thermostat? It means there is some issue with a water pressure sensor. The disadvantages of recirculating pumps include waiting for cold waters (its a less-known disadvantage), having to install additional wiring, and so on. Is there a way to tell if the cold pipe is circulatory/return line or cold water from the mains? You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. Having a tankless water heater is an energy-efficient way of getting hot water. Next, hook hoses to the valves, then open them to drain the water. If the problem does not get resolved, replace the motherboard or control board or hire a professional t do it. Is the cable harness compatible? By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Timers and wifi sockets are quite cheap. You can contact a plumber if necessary. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot, Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, Easy DIY Media Cabinet Build with Basic Tools, From Cast-Iron to Stainless-Steel: How to Replace Your Kitchen Sink, While theres no water in the pump, do not turn on the recirculating pump. 14 Culprits To Check For Now, MMBTU To MMSCFD Calculator For Natural Gas + Chart, 8 Best Infrared Heaters For Indoors, Patios, Garages (With ECO Thermostats), AGM Battery Voltage Charts: 12V, 24V Deep Cycle Battery Voltage, Lead-Acid Battery Voltage Chart For 6V, 12V, 24V, 48V Batteries, Natural Gas MMSCFD To MMBTU/Day Calculator + Chart. What is more, you can, by these estimates, reduce the future water bill considerably and actually profit nicely just by not needlessly waiting for water when youre waiting for the hot water to kick in. Free returns are available for the shipping address you chose. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. Check to see if the warranty is still valid and contact the manufacturer. It will make your water recirculating pump much smarter. To install a full recirculating pump system, you need to consult with a plumber because you will need an extra pipe. Similarly, if the return from the loops is mixing with the boiler loop system and cooling off the water before it gets sent to the recirculation pump, you will face this problem. The hot water recirculation pump works by: The very phrase recirculating comes from this pump returning the unused hot water back into the tank. Hi: Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. However, the plumber branched this off into the circulation water inlet. Great article!! Now, we have to check if these costs are balanced out by the water savings. Any tips on where to verify if I have a dedicated return line? When you operated the hot water tap the last time you needed it, the water shuts off as soon as you turn off the tap. I have alos checked my HeatBox settings to ensure the temp is set high enough for my domestic supply (set to around 120 degrees). A recirculation system is a hot water line that runs throughout the house and returns back to the water heater. Or invest in a larger water heater. It means there is some issue with the flow sensor or switch. Eventually, they pay for themselves by reducing the water bills. Difficulties with estimation of epsilon-delta limit proof. With the NRCR you can set your own schedule with a remote accessory and tailor the integrated pump to your lifestyle or scheduled needs. Find applications from Grundfos related to this subject. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. To reduce that time significantly (and stop needlessly wasting water), we can install hot water recirculating pump. Normally uncontrolled pumps are used as the flow variation is relatively small. Turn off the recirculation when the house is not occupied, in order to save even more energy. This is because the sensors are corroded over time which causes them to shut the heater down. Increase water pressure at the water heater. Make sure the exhaust pipe is not obstructed. The error code E445 tells about the defect of the bypass mixing valve. What about adding the NaviLink WiFi board and controlling it from your phone anywhere? Is this a common drawback with the under-sink crossover valves, for the heater to turn on when a cold water faucet is turn on? How? Remove the front cover of the water heater. If that fails, then the pump impeller might have disintegrated or the system water pressure may be below 0 at the pump suction causing the pump to cavitate. Watt recirculating pump installed on the water heater (pump plugged into standard 110/120V outlet, 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors, valve). air), Sensible Heat (BTU/hr) = 1.1 x CFM x t (std. Depending on the age of your Navien NPE-A model, he did you a favor. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman to fix the issue. Navien Flow Sensor. Wash it under the water with a brush, let it dry, and then place it back. if your water heater has 5 connections ( CW in; HW out; Recirc in; condensate ; gas) then the recirculation is coming backing to the water heater. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink for a few seconds the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. Also, turn off the water heater, and recirculate the pump. Then, turn it on again. It looks like you're using an ad blocker. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot sometimes. Sold by HVAC Pros and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. Do you want to know the details? For moving the pump to another sink, you would have to talk with a plumber. Thanks for confirming and letting me know about the potential damage to the circulating pump as that hadn't occurred to me. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads. Also, check the feeder valve and pressure relief valves activity. What I imagined would happen is 3-4 seconds of cold and then super hot water that was just waiting for me from the recirculation. Turn off the power before removing the filter. Depending on the size of the pump and installation difficulty, the average cost of a hot water recirculation pump costs anywhere from $200 to $800 (installed). It also may be as simple as a dip switch in the tankless unit itself. A while ago we had a plumber/friend install a Navien tankless water heater. Also, check the filters to see if they are clean. Examine the controllers condition and replace it if required. Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. [Fix It Easily], Ball Valve Handle Broke Off [Step By Step Solutions]. Close the cold and hot water inlet valves and then drain the water heater. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. You can also identify and fix them yourself. First, you need to consider Things to consider when sizing the busiest usage period or peak time. Dont hesitate to switch the tees around if you get them backward. Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. It means there is some issue with the OT-remote controllers operation. You are using an out of date browser. Connect a regular garden hose to the hot side service valve. Inspect the water feeder valve, water pressure, and water pressure relief valve. Press either the Up and the Down button to switch between any of these recirculation settings: Press the Power button on the front panel to turn off the water heater. A family of 4 with normal water usage can expect to save $50-$75 a year. If we dont use it, we waste a lot of water. Hello Frank, one of the disadvantages of recirculating pumps is that you have to wait for cold water a bit. The plumber said that he tied in both in the master bathroom and the kitchen but Ill crawl under the house to validate this. Overusing your recirculating pump also increases your electricity bill. The error code E441 informs about the open thermistor or short circuit problem. Here we will cover all the important parts of hot water recirculations pumps, including: You will get an overall look at how you can use increased water pressure by a circulation pump for almost instantaneous hot water access. Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. Navien ComfortFlow is the first and only system that incorporates a built-in insulated buffer tank and recirculation pump. I just hooked up the NR-20DU wired remote control ($80 from Fergusons) and programmed 3 on/off recirculating cycles based on family needs. Start by turning off the service valves and removing the hoses. Circulation pumps can wreck havoc on your lines if you run them constantly due to friction at bends causing pinhole leaks. I bought the remote PB you referenced above and the specs on it say it uses 12 VDC, but I couldn't find anywhere whether the 12 V supplied by the Navien board is either AC or DC. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. $257.16. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort.