[2][3], At first Metcalfe was placed on 30 days probation by the LDS Security department and ordered to "sever yourself from involvement with people, groups, or publications that teach doctrines, privately or publicly, which are contrary to those of the Prophet." An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. So yes, Brent, please comment on this phenomenon. I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. Looking around me, every object was changed, and a bright glory appeared on everything. Brent Metcalf, who has been through personal tragedy, triumph and uncertainty can now call himself a national champion. Coming! Seventh East Press. Hofmann really believed he could pull it all off, and maybe it wasnt just the police who thwarted his scheme? Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. It shows how establishment Apologists from FAIR and Interpreter and the rest of the former FARMS crew only care about your academic achievements even if you actually do do serious research on the Book of Abraham. Ack! The problems he discovered lay at Josephs feet, but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith. I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. Brent Metcalf's last collegiate wrestling match was a highly anticipated one. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. Part two was chilling as details we have never heard about Mark Hoffman, Steve Christiansen come out. Oh, that would be great! I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. I happen to believe so. You are hesitant to answer no evil speaking on what you cant say right ;). I teared up with Brent during that part. Thomas, I can assure you Im living on the same planet you are. This unleashed a veritable deluge of Catholic contributions to modern biblical scholarship. I struggled in school with learning how to read for years and this resulted in me developing crippling anxiety any time I was aced to read in public. Yes, thats the book, though the volume I perused was the first (1816) edition published in Portsmouth, NH. What are your views on how the Book of Mormon was created? In fact, Brent was with Mark the night before he caused the first explosion. Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) Ultimately, Id say (and I dont know that youd fundamentally disagree here) that its impossible to separate traditions like Catholicism or Mormonism from their fundamental and unique truth claims. Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. Please let us know. (The audio starts in Part 1 around 1:23.55) I did a little research and found a digitized & searchable copy of Elias Smiths autobiography. Wow John, what an interview. A man with boldness of speech, and is often cited by members as one of the favourite apostles to hear from. No one believed that any one person could do all of those forgeries and build those bombs, and kill those people . The lengthy, five-part series covers Metcalfes childhood in Mormonism, his mission, his time []. Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. He worked directly for Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmann's victims. It is something that has fascinated me, and this Metcalfe interview did not disappoint!!! We had some technical difficulties. Brent Metcalfe borrows the titles of a few works on literary and narrative theory and then concludes that such theory under mines the historical claims of the Book of Mormon. I was with one of his relatives the day he was charged with the bombings, and she was totally shocked & absolutely certain he had nothing to do with it. Just curious if there is a link that has information about what they discovered and why they were ex'd or disparaged. A scene from John Dehlin's upcoming disciplinary council, probably. Broad topics include my excommunication plus BoMor and BoAbr research. If the Prophet cant see Hoffman as a fraud, why should anyone assume their Bishop/Stake president has any more ability in terms of divinely inspired discernment? Thanks to the both of you! Thank you. The message was discovered after his review had gone to press and had to be edited out. Why are they so adamant about excommunicating someone who has a different opinion than they do? brent metcalfe excommunicated. Pardon me for not commenting on LDS church history, but to be honest Ive read it or heard it all and have moved on. This is what led me here! [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer. I also wanted to tell you how disturbed I became to my very core about the way you were treated during your working for the church Then the description of the events of day of the bombings, where the meeting was still set with the GA! You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. Because researchers like me are not taken seriously by them, even if we have serious and significant contributions. This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. I heard this in contrast to the snippet of Steve Christensens wife on a news show asking about what Steve Christensen was threatening Mark Hofmann with if he didnt produce the McClellin collection where she stated something along the lines of He was going to go to the police and have him arrested. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Examples would be projects at the Serpent Mounds in Ohio, linguists studying things like Native Americans singing in a language that seemed close to Hebrew,archaeological digs in latin America that were obviously BOM related, etc. I've debated whether or not I should write about this, as I'm well aware the reception may be inflammatory, however it's something I'd like to get off my chest. But Brent seems to do just the opposite. For one thing, you were damn good at martial arts. Will there be more? Our interview continues tonight!!! They have shown time and time again that that is all that matters to them. It didnt have anything to do with church history or anything you would read in something like the CES letter, but was instead a realization and acceptance that its not me, its the church followed by a complete collapse of everything. Little trace of Morison survives for much of the early 1540s, but it is clear that he built up his landed base and attached himself to . Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. Where we should push back is, if someone solely discredits someone without examples of where their information is wrong or flawed ie simply attacking the messenger instead of the message. Did any of these projects or research ever prove anything? Tom, have you considered allowing John to interview you? Thank you Brandt for sharing your experiences. Thank you, I didnt know about that info. I think youre referring to what has collectively come to be known as the Michigan Relics. James E Talmage wrote quite a bit about them, back in the day. Has been quite a while since you had a podcast that wasnt left of center. Thank you for this interview. Brent Metcalf was a bad dude in high school. She spoke of her life and what has happened in the 30 years since one of Utah's most infamous crimes, Thursday October 8, 2015. As a Mormon History and Rare Document Researcher, Brent Metcalfe has unparalleled knowledge of the religion and its connections in Utah. And much was going on. Were they hiding behind Christensen for some reason? Thanks for the clarification. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. :( Will re-record hopefully soon! I dont agree with all the conclusions of your research but the research is a gift to all of us. Thanks for this podcast! Brent had some trouble remembering the details of the events (so did I, and I wasnt there, although I read all of the relevant literature at the time), but I think this is a very good summing up by Jerald Tanner, Confessions of a White Salamander: https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm. She also noted that after JS none of the preceding Church leaders really got what he was trying to do/teach in this realm. Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. I love the podcasts. Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. It was awful so stressful. Im not sure who made this comment, (I think that it was on another thread),But it went something like thisBased upon the bretherns actions regarding the Salamander letter, The LDS leadership thought that Mark Hofmann was telling the truth and that Joseph Smith was the fraud. Let me clarify. Thanks Brent for your sincerity, honesty and pleasant demeanor in which you talk about these things. sorry, the book is called The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri, Not a question but I would very much like to hear Brents response to Kerry Muhlesteins recent FAIRMormon Conference presentation on the Book of Abraham. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. Unintended consequences here we come! Brent, are you still working on a Book of Abraham book? It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. This podcast inspired me to read the book Mormon Murders. Lance is a Gnostic priest and has written and spoken extensively on the Gnostic and esoteric flavor of Joseph Smiths writings. Awesome music, right? Follow @BHMetcalf. In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. [5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. I wish we could let go of the idea that a person can only be an expert in a particular field if they have a college degree saying they are. He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. And now, as per reports, Brent Metcalfe has been able to construct a healthy and happy life for himself outside of Mormonism, where he can continue to work as an independent scholar and technical editor without any issues or restrictions. [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. As I went towards the house, this thought came into my mind, why do I feel so different from what I did a short time past : I am unspeakably happy and shall never see trouble again.. We also talk about the concept of translation, Joseph Smiths views on his translations, the traditional apologetic responses concerning the Book of Abraham (Hugh Nibley, John Gee, and Kerry Muhlestein), as well as the LDS Churchs recent essay on the Book of Abraham. 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. Elbert once quipped, The Open Door Club has become the 7th East Press!. We were both greenies at the same time. In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Iowa's Brent Metcalf wrestles with Iowa State's Mitch Mueller during their 149 pound match Friday, March 19, 2010 in the quarterfinal round of the 2010 NCAA Division 1 Wrestling Championships at . In Part 2, Brent describes working for and with Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter episode, and the bombings that took the lives of Steve and Kathy Sheets. Yet a solid and detailed examination oflhe pre suppositions, methods, arguments, and conclusions of the vari ous readings of the Book of Mormon would still be very use Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Shortly after returning home and leaving the church he was very active in Sunstone and various things of that nature, but has since moved on with his life and seems very happy with a small family of his own running a small restaurant he and his older brother own together. Azerbaijan's Jabrayil Hasanov in action against The USA's Brent Metcalf. I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. Would that fit the time frame the book is given in? In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. Did you ever suspect there was something not quite right with Mark Hoffman? So sorry Maxine! In episode #276 of The Jimmy Rex Show, we sit down with a key role in Netflix Documentary Murder Among The Mormons, Brent Metcalfe.Visit and Listen to more. Also, the rest of your experience is so totally mind-blowing-interesting. When will the big book about the Egytian papers be out? 100% CAUCASIAN Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is Caucasian. Brent was ultimately excommunicated for editing/authoring this book. brent metcalfe excommunicated. I have heard that Mac Christianson financed the mission of one of Hofmanns sons. D&C 76:2021). And I went through a very long phase of just wishing that I had never been born. Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. Learn how your comment data is processed. He did so to prevent members from apostatizing and becoming fundamentalists. John Dehlin Faces Excommunication. Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. His contributions, reflections, thoughts and insights represent some of the most important contributions in the history of not just Mormon Stories, but Mormonism in general. It all depends on the depth of study one does. But it has not always been that way or worked in his favor. Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. When Brent Metcalfe compiled a book of essays last year suggesting that Mormonism's founding scripture wasn't the ancient history it purports to be, he expected some criticism. Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. You seem to be back on your game of simply inviting your guests to tell their stories. [9] Metcalfe became a suspect himself at one point in time. Do you still believe in God, and what type of God? Helping us understand all the ins and outs of this tale throughout the three episodes of this series is Brent Metcalfe, so lets find out more about him, shall we? Its likely that our paths could have crossed. A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? Get all the information related to Cardinal Health Nps Online - Make website login easier than ever The membership on the website. This was an awesome interview. In Part 5, we explore the history surrounding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham(one of the primary scriptural texts for the LDS Church). I clearly remember the frustration in her voice. [8], Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. saw heaven open, and Jesus at the right hand of God, and the Heavenly hosts surrounding the throne, adoring the Father and the Son in the most sublime strains, (Hibbard, _Memoirs_, 181; cf. A member of the LDS Church reports he was excommunicated for apostasy on February 2nd, 2013. There are so many parallels between the happenings in my LDS life and Brents, (although nothing to such depth and notoriety) I was drawn to find more information about his life, while he was in the church and out. What about your book did the church find cause to excommunicate you? I was a writer for 7th East Press. The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. However, they still mention other things in their presentations (if you can stand to listen to them; I dont particularly like Jake Hiltons rhetoric, but Wayne May is pretty interesting to listen to)that are pretty fascinating and almost convincing. Privacy Policy. And am I the only one who likes the older music better? From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. So sorry for the delay!!!! Id like to hear Mr. Metcalfe address the character, integrity and morals of LDS apostles and prophets with regard to the books of A and M. Regarding the recent essay published by the LDS church regarding the Book of Abraham; what does he think they got right and what does he think is wrong? Now, along with all of the other historical and literary problems, including DNA evidence, we are suppose to accept it on feelings and the spirit.like all religions do with their own faiths.and be excited about sharing this book with our friends! My life has been enriched by theinquiries those books catalyzed.