WOuldn't one of the friends have felt him a little bit off, at the least? His dad followed him around with a camcorder, capturing every move. The narrator seemed to revel in the graphic violence he was depicting, but it was the final passage that was particularly disturbing, where Dylan conveyed unabashed awe and . They were not the mainstream group. Without advertising income, we can't keep making this site awesome for you. While Id argue that violent media doesnt cause people to act violently if theyre not otherwise inclined, it seems Dylan was vulnerable to the violent games and movies he consumed outside the home. I could have built an atomic bomb in my bedroom and they wouldn't have known or cared. Eric . Eric said his father never asked whether the caller even had the right phone number. IE 11 is not supported. Klebold's body was . I'm glad Oprah isn't going to help this man promote his book. When you think about it, in his journals he didn't have too much positive to say across the board. I worked as a dishwasher, then busboy then waiter in a German-American restaurant years ago when I was growing up. It just seems all a bit odd. . Dylan Klebold had written about a "god-like figure" dressed in black, brutally gunning down fraternity-type boys. . He felt a need to be in control. You unterstand. Too bad. Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, but moved around frequently as a child due to his father's occupation in the United States Air Force, while Klebold was born and raised near Columbine. I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again. I couldn't put the book down, and even though I thought I knew the ending of the story, or at least most of it, I have to admit, the last couple of chapters, specifically the one detailing the Basement Tapes, and the one about what had happened leading up to Harris and Klebold committing suicide were fucking frightening. People can be fooled. OP is an idiot, laying the whole thing at the parents' door. The two would . Dylan, Cullen writes, was depressed. I've met members in USA, UK, Norway, Sweden,Germany,Brazil, Chile, Ireland, India and the Bahamas. I just wanted to apologize to you guys for any crap this might instigate as far as (inaudible) or something. It would drive me insane to have my kids behave like that, but some people are utterly oblivious to the cacaphony and strife being caused by their children. They have grown up to be (somewhat) upstanding members of society, but I don't see how it is so easy to go from knowing your kid is making crank calls and setting off amateur pipe bombs to seeing him as a psychopathic murderer. What happened isn't their fault. Psycrotrenic, charter member of the International Reb&Vodka fan club. I'm not doubting what you're saying, and if you've got any insight, I'd love to hear it, but short of actually going in and manually rewiring neurons, it just seems like the best case scenario would be non-destructive analytical automaton. It was obvious that the attack had been in the works for a long time, and the plan carefully thought out. He was a sociopath and needed drugs and a really good psychiatrist. Don't believe me? Susan Francis Klebold was born on March 25, 1949, to Milton Yassenoff and Charlotte Yassenoff. They could still have been on the outskirts of the school. Yes, it's the fifth anniversary of when you met your partner and you go out to dinner and somebody's child is relentlessly screaming throughout dinner that's fine. x93There is no comfort for parents here,x94 Cullen told me yesterday. Haven't most of you been able to conceal your homosexuality from your family for a number of years? They are rare. I can't believe Oprah canceled her Columbine show today. Eric Harris was a garden variety psychopath, nothing very interesting about him. I don't think it's fair to either demonize or absolve them, but from studies of psychopathy, even the best parenting can't make that be turned off. Firstly, like everyone else he didnt pick up on his mental health nor was Dylan apparently showing it to his best friend. I do find it odd that youd characterise your 17 year old son as your best friend anyway, youre his father. His grades fell to average. Eric's also wearing a plaid shirt that's either dark blue or black with white, with a white t-shirt on underneath. Dylan Klebold, along with his friend Eric Harris, shot and killed 13 people and injured 23 others in April, 1999 in Columbine High School, before they turned their guns on . Eric Harris was 17 and a hottie. When it came to intervention, these people had no idea what they should have been doing. . "In the very . I'm with VoTN on this one. Eric David Harris (April 9, 1981 - April 20, 1999) and Dylan Bennet Klebold (/ . I recently watched the documentary Raising Adam Lanza, and, though it wasnt as detailed, there were some interesting overlaps between Adam and Dylan. After the killing: How parents of attackers cope. Indeed, R96. Every parent has flaws and every parent makes mistakes, but to me they mostly come across as a very normal family like there are millions all over the world. Sociopaths who undergo training often use that training to fake being normal in order to better manipulate people. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris opened fire at the suburban Denver school on April 20, 1999, killing 13 people before taking their own lives. How can that not bother you? The teachers at Columbine all seemed incredibly disengaged. In any case, teenagers can be quite unfair to their parents. How do you teach someone to have emotions or empathy? Dave Cullen, in a radio interview that I've been listening to, is very quick to point out that psychopathy doesn't equate automatically with murder. Weren't they in a small group of rebellious kids? I think those that readily (and outrightly) blame the parents are inclined to do so as to perpetuate some aspect of control, otherwise the shear nature of the case becomes too frightening. ", Eric: (shrugs) "My parents might have made some mistakes that they weren't really aware of. My parents didn't know anything I did, didn't care,and were happy if I stayed invisible. It's getting late; Eric looks at his watch and says it's 1:28 AM on March 15. I knew he was off, different. Ordinary, normal people who genuinely loved their son. Too bad a pack of rabid Columbine mommies can't get together and make a punching bag out of her. (p. 277). By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Sue Klebold. The world was shocked and sickened on April 20, 1991, when crazed students Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric Harris, 18, slaughtered 12 students and one teacher at Colorado's Columbine High School. I can't remember. His parents were Wayne Harris and his wife Katherine Ann Poole. She has spent the last 15 years excavating every detail of her family life, and trying to understand the crucial intersection . My own experience is that my gifted teacher dragged me out of sporting events because they weren't academic enough, encouraged my teachers to assign me extra work that the other kids didn't do, and basically didn't understand teenagers, high school, or what it was like to be ostracized at all. Ten years after the Columbine killings, the Harris family has not spoken publicly at all, and the Klebold parents have given one interview, to the columnist David Brooks here at the New York Times. How often did they fix things up, was he emotionally available for Dylan? I can handle them "spending too much time on the killers", but unfortunately I recognize there are too many whackjobs in this country who would just see it as glorification. He still was the boy his parents joked seemed to be on autopilot (p. 65), but Sue notes that this may have been particularly dangerous in his case. But Sue and her husband didnt know what the signs they were seeing meant. Focus on the mental. In the April 24 column, Brooks had paraphrased an article in the online publication Slate that said Harris and Klebold yearned to become the most prolific mass murders in history. ", Dylan: (sticks his face in the camera) "Goodbye. Eric David Harris and Dylan Bennet Klebold were a pair of school shooters, bombers, and mass murderers responsible for the April 20, 1999 Columbine High School Massacre in Columbine, Colorado, which killed thirteen people and wounded 21 others before ending with both of their suicides. [quote]I think he made only one phone call to a recruiter. It Always seems like he didn't give a damn about them, in his writings and in the Basement Tapes. As his father's career pulled him out of schools and away from friends leaving Plattsburgh, New York in 1993 for Colorado Harris increasingly retreated into the computer and . R71, having seen Patti Lupone shit all over Gypsy, I can assure you, there's a Hell. His father claimed his body but the burial site is unknown. He had friends, but felt as if he were a burden; he wanted love, but the girl he was interested in didnt know he existed. I'm a true follower of Reb &VoDka. I'm not a troll anonymous. Age : 36. She just took interest and responsibility for what I did as long as I was both underage and under her roof. Sue Klebold. On August 30, 2006 Columbine obsessed 18 year old Alvaro Castillo would murder his father with a sawed off Mossberg 500 shotgun at their home and then drive to a local high school and open fire. Their teenage son, along with his classmate Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, on April 20, 1999. I believe it was either a sibling or playmates. You shouldn't attack people for the actions of their offspring. This girl went on screaming for full minutes at a time - nobody came out of the house and told her to be quiet. (The OP was looking for books on personality mirroring and other techniques sociopaths use). Empathy; not so much. Do you think Dylans dad could embarrass him as a child in front of other people or humiliate him in other ways that could result in Dylans low self esteem or was Dylan naturally shy? But she came to realize the truth was far more troubling. See? In the vacuum of actual news, they just start over again. Maybe I'm just feeling too knowledgeable having been re-reading Steve Pinker's "How The Mind Works" recently. In Cub Scouts, he was a bright, dedicated boy who worked hard for his badges. What kind of parent lets their kid have a swastika prominently displayed in their room (as just one of many, many signs that their offspring had problems)? When I hear this "We never knew a thing was wrong with our child!" (They said no.) Harris also had sadistic tendencies, which propelled him to "seek vengeance.". The big trifecta of psychopathology. Sue Klebold broke down in tears as she remembered the funeral of her son Dylan. His negative traits werent out of the ordinary either, really: he was very sensitive to embarrassment, which sometimes led to anger; and he was perhaps a little too independent, where he wouldnt ask for help even if he needed it like when he had to take a break from baseball after pains he never mentioned became so bad they caused his arm real damage. And he's not pulling a lot of punches about the media saturation either, and doesn't let the Rocky off the hook. ", Dylan: (talks about how his parents taught him to be independent and self-reliant) "I appreciate that.". Sue had no idea it was a life-and-death situation. This page is focused on the tragedy as well as its perpetrators so we can try to better understand the psychology and motives behind this horrific event. When I was 16 my parents sure as hell would have known if I had firearms in my possession or were building pipe bombs anywhere near our home. This was murder, he said. The attack on Columbine is almost a prototypical school shooting, but one way in which it stands out is that it was committed by two people together. LITTLETON, Colo. Just 15 people attended the funeral of Columbine High School killer Dylan Klebold on Saturday two ministers, eleven mourners and two anguished parents wondering where they'd gone . Dylan: "Hey mom. Also when I was growing up, people had no qualms about calling a parent and saying "Your little boy Johnny said something really awful to my son today." or "Your little Janey slapped Susey today and she needs to stop doing that." The oblivious parents in Target or sitting inside their houses listening to their kids having a meltdown and completely ignoring it. COLUMBINE, pisode 3 : l'impact sur la socit, 3. Dylan Klebold, along with Eric Harris, shot and killed 13 people and injured 20 at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999. . After I wrote a column a few weeks ago about the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School, I got e-mail from Tom Klebold, the father of Dylan Klebold, one of the . I think he suffered horribly before he died, Susan Klebold said. Some psychopaths are obsessed with money or power, but when you combine psychopathy with sadism, you get an Eric Harris. Maybe he needs to go home. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold are once more in the family room of the Harris home. I think it's really odd that Tom Said Dylan was His best friend and Dylan Kind of didn't seem to care at all about his dadso one of them Had a really wrong perception. We are not there yet. If they had even one shred of decency they would have taken full responsibility for creating and shaping and not monitoring these monsters. Dang, I'm unemployed and I wanted to watch today's Oprah about Columbine. "Psychopaths don't feel guilty because they are blind to guilt," Ochberg said. It wasnt accepted.. Sorry if I can't be interested in something without arousing your ire. No one could control him. I don't know if the Klebolds had any inkling at all, but I really don't get the Harrises. That's why Dylan got one for Christmas 99, it was Tom's way of finding something to bond with with Dylan. The interview is set to air on "20/20" this Friday, coinciding with . -- b. And even then we may never uncover the truth. Similiarly if a child is screaming at playmates and/or siblings and will not stop, you have to move in and take control of the situation. Other than that, we don't have much indication that Tom was anything other than a good father. A Mothers Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy. That doesn't mean that it's always successful. Dylan was also drinking at the end of his life, likely complicating his mental health issues, though had once said that marijuana was a waste of time and so perhaps wasnt involved in drugs. When early word came that the Trench Coat Mafia may be involved in the shooting, Tom ran downstairs to look for Dylans trench coat, which he couldnt find, Lozow said. [] Asking why only makes us feel hopeless. Not only would that give us someone to blame (someone still living, unlike Eric and Dylan, who turned their guns on themselves), but it would also allow the psychic distance between x93usx94 and x93themx94 that frightened humans crave. I shudder to think what kind of excuses you make for YOUR spawn's horrific behavior, R62. . [quote]I can't believe Oprah canceled her Columbine show today. Or is your tiny mind only capable of two viewpoints? . Very exciting though, the progress we've made. When in a store and two or three siblings are fighting and shouting and behaving badly, how does that parent not see it? Wayne & Kathy Harris' son is widely seen as the . They are particularly good at it. I want you to have that fly CD. The couple took issue with people who say they forgive them for what happened. He was kind, gentle, smart, and happy. Hi Alison, However, it is my understanding from reviews that he contends the boys actually had a circle of friends and were, in fact, popular within that group. I was just worried Dylan was unhappy (p. 227). They had heard the gunmen may have been part of the Trench Coat Mafia, a loose group of students, including their son, who said athletes at Columbine bullied them. in CJ 725, Tagged: columbine, mass murderer, mental illness, school shootings. I've linked an article from Nature magazine about it. His lower half can't be seen. Subject: Re: The Klebolds are DIVORCED Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:17 pm. Parenting is the ultimate denial of responsibility because it is always the OTHER PARENT'S FAULT. Theres to me a level of skepticism we have usually of course with the scraps of info we had, but also the slight weirdness/more to it/unreliability when it came down to this particular topic, Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylans best friend. By Eun Kyung Kim. They opened fire on students and teachers at Columbine High School in Columbine, Colorado, on the Nazi leader's birthday in 1999, killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 23 people before taking their own lives. Has anybody ever agreed with you about that, r104? "Hey, Sci-fi-tologist, fuck off with your anti-psychology bullshit".